From UFO historian Wendy Connors' collection of UFO-related recordings, including
"Cops and Saucers"
Socorro, New Mexico, April 29 (?), 1964. Louis Reidel, publisher of the El Defensor Chieftain newspaper in Socorro, is interviewed by Ray Stanford regarding little men with hoofed feet near the object that Officer Lonnie Zamora observed and reported to the USAF investigators. 08:00 Mins. (link to mp3 audio)
STANFORD: Ray Stanford speaking. I’m at the office of the Defensor-Chieftain, Socorro, New Mexico. I have just talked to a gentleman here who was on the site Saturday morning [June 25, 1964], some hours after the occurence while the imprints were still very clear. And I want to ask him some questions. I wonder if he can tell us his name first
REIDEL: Louis Reidel; I’m the publisher of the El Defensor Chieftain.
STANFORD: Regarding what you published, seen by you at the site, did you see the indentations or tracks while they were still very fresh?
REIDEL: Yeah, very early the next morning, and that was Saturday morning, and before hundreds of people there, gotten the chance to obliterate all those tracks.
STANFORD: What was your impression of these tracks? Do you think they were made by a heavy object or a light object, or by digging out, or what?
REIDEL: I would feel a heavy object, coming down very slowly. And, ah, made a four or five inch depression in the comparatively hard sand there in the draw.
STANFORD: And these were longer than they were wide?
REIDEL: About twelve, I would guess, about twelve inches long, and three or four inches wide.
STANFORD: And these tracks running? through the center of the wedge, was that a description of this that was accurate on this...?
REIDEL: Well, probably a little deeper on the south side, I mean the north side of the way it landed. From the ?? of the description, the front of the plane from where it landed—I could put it that way—was facing south, and the way it landed on uneven ground seemed to be heavy indentations on the south side, which indicates more of the weight was there.
STANFORD: This would be lots, as I recall from being there this morning, the south side is downhill, it tends to slope upwards to the north, so there might be more weight on the south side for an object balancing on its legs, would this be your observation too?
REIDEL: Yes.
STANFORD: Now I hear there were two indentations to the side, the west side, sort of parallel with one of the lines made by one of the lines made by two of the four legs. Did you see these two indentations yourself?
REIDEL: Yes, I did. And someone in the crowd, one of the more forward ones (??), one of them made the remark that they were possibly footprints, or, ah, if you want to describe it more of a hoofprint, but that wasn’t the impression that I had. But we decided in our story, in our newspaper [story], that we wouldn’t go into that too deeply. It sounded a little preposterous.
STANFORD: I see. How close were these to the line formed by the two nearest footprints, formed by the object, legprints, how close were they to the line made by the two various legprints?
REIDEL: Well, ah, practically in the center between the two indentations made by the legs on the west side, and probably 36 inches, about a yard.
STANFORD: Uh huh. Were they in parallel with that line made by the two legs?
REIDEL: No. They were, ah, yes, they were parallel, I’m sorry.
STANFORD: Yes. Now we won’t speculate as to what these were. I was wondering, it was only the second time (?) that Zamora told me that he had seen some figures from a distance in white coveralls. Did he tell you about these figures?
REIDEL: Yes. Yes, they were on the same side those indentions [sic], those was around the(?) round holes, indentions, rather.
STANFORD: In talking to Dr. Hynek, he implied that Zamora had told him nothing specific at all about seeing any men and implied that he had never mentioned any men. He later seemed to come down and say that he did mention coveralls, after very pointed questioning by one of the persons who was present. But did, um, in this talk with Zamora soon after the sighting, since you were one of the first to be there, did he mention to you that he actually saw men or just coveralls?
REIDEL: He really doesn’t (?).He said there were two there. Now he didn’t say anything about them being men, but, ah, but you were meant to think so, because he said that he, that when he was still in the car, the one of them, both men or objects, had their back turned, and one of them turned around looked him squarely in the face. That was his exact words. And he very definitely said that he saw two men there at the, ah, at the object. He said that immediately, that he, ah, they disappeared, kinda got in the plane, from the side, from the west side, and the plane lifted up and started off.
STANFORD: (??) from the west side, this is pretty effective that (??). That if they got in the west side, weren’t they by these two circular indentations at the west side?
REIDEL: Yes.
STANFORD: (?) Would you say these were in a position, where, where speculation you might think these might be some stairs that had been folded down, that it touched down there, that this looked like it could have been stair (?)?
REIDEL: Well, it’s possible. I thought that later when I got to thinking about it, when... You don’t ordinarily think of men with hoofs, or anything like that, so I presumed that... the most remarkable part was that there was no other tracks there.
STANFORD: Yes. I can tell you the men were small and child-like, as one report said. Did he tell you that, that they were child-like?
REIDEL: Well, that was his description, kind of (?) said that, that they were small. That’s, that’s what he was...
STANFORD: Yes. I would think if they were that small, maybe overnight their footprints might be destroyed by a little breeze or something.
REIDEL: Well, they could have...
STANFORD: Heavier ones could have remained a little more. So, while it’s only speculation that maybe these things were associated with a, with a ladder, this might at least give us a reason why they were on the west side of the object, since we know, that according to Zamora’s report, this was where the men disappeared into the object was on the west side. Now, would you say that Zamora was still rather excited Saturday morning when you were there?
REIDEL: No, no, he’d gotten over that part of it.
STANFORD: Zamora impressed me as a very down and low ?? sort of fellow, and not subject to imaginative spells or hallucinations. Would this be your impression of him, and from the people’s knowledge of him here in town, would you say this seems to be a general impression?
REIDEL: Ah, very definitely.
STANFORD: Quite. Well I think (unintelligable) in getting the details of this case on the record, since I may not have time to talk to all of these things with Mr. Zamora, who’s been bothered a lot by everyone questioning him and calling him on the phone, I sure do appreciate your help.
(END)
